If you’re a WIRED reader who uses AI in any creative context, I’d suggest staying far, far away from anyone involved in the TV show Hacks. In an interview earlier this year, actor Hannah Einbinder (who plays young comedy writer Ava Daniels on the show) described AI creators as “losers,” “not artists” and “not special.”

The show’s cocreators couldn’t agree more. In a wide-ranging conversation for The Big Interview ahead of the Hacks series finale, Paul W. Downs and Lucia Aniello were resolute about the value of human creativity—and what can be lost when AI enters the picture. Across five excellent seasons—if you haven’t seen the show, I really do recommend it—Hacks has been praised for its sharp writing and wit, and its thoughtful portrayal of Deborah Vance and Ava’s complex, constantly evolving relationship.

The show acts as a mirror for the real-world entertainment industry, weaving in plotlines that tackle everything from media consolidation to corporate censorship. When they came knocking on WIRED’s door, we jumped at the chance to chat, and I was lucky enough to spend an hour with Downs and Aniello—both WIRED subscribers—earlier this month.

Gender comes up in the show over and over. Both of these women, in a variety of ways, deal with sexism, with gender dynamics, with gender tropes. They are comedians who love creating work, and that is what they explore throughout the series.

The creators’ stance on AI is clear: it’s not just a tool but a threat to human creativity and collaboration. They believe in the tough, tiring, absolutely-no-shortcuts approach they take to making entertainment, which has resulted in Hacks being celebrated for its writing and character development.